@PurpCat Nah bro, you should only play free software games like Tux Racer. Proprietary games, including games released for old platforms keep you isolated and helpless.

@xianc78 @PurpCat

Those that give up on freedom can do nothing but cope at the sight of those that achieve it and thrive.

Keep coping.

@sally @xianc78 tell me you don't play games without telling me you don't play games

@PurpCat @sally @xianc78 also its funny how he portrays himself as being capable of more when in reality its the opposite

@PurpCat @sally @xianc78 niggas that run linux-libre use their computer exclusively for childporn

@xianc78 @PurpCat I bet even fully reverse engineered games are a step to far for freetard purists too.
They forget that older hardware/software typically wasn't really capable of the same sort of spying/telemetry that more modern stuff is- and freetardism on that front is more for ease of modification than muh security.

@RK7 @xianc78 dude some of them blow up if you mention shit like the system3 reverse engineering because WAH WAH WAH THE GAME ISN'T FULLY OPEN no the assets aren't and you gotta buy a game on gog/similar for them but you can run alice soft's old games with an engine clone, also a few of leafs games got opened because they broke gpl with xvid

@PurpCat @xianc78 Ideally yeah you'd have to the source code for everything available and copyright couldn't fuck you over as much, but that's not the world we live in. Like, you don't see freetards insisting you only watch big buck bunny or 1920s silent films, so they're almost capable of getting it

@RK7 @xianc78 the old school ones would actually buy xboxes/playstations for this. I'm not joking, I knew a Mac Enjoyer who had game consoles for gaming after Mac gaming died off in the 2000s (he had lots of Feral/Aspyr/Macsoft ports in big box).

Laugh all you want but there was a time when Macs had ports and the SS1 Mac port was the only one they could find the source code for even!

@PurpCat @RK7 Retro Mac gaming is very underrated. There are a lot of hidden gems there.

https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=c7Jh154-wq4

@xianc78 @RK7 play escape velocity if you want one of the most infamous mac games that was not really ported
https://macintoshgarden.org/games/escape-velocity
https://macintoshgarden.org/games/escape-velocity-override
https://macintoshgarden.org/games/escape-velocity-nova

glider too
https://macintoshgarden.org/games/glider-pro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8_ypI_C7nM

@PurpCat @RK7 Escape Velocity looks like some Starflight clone with prerendered graphics.

@xianc78 @PurpCat The 2000s era of mac gaming was kinda interesting ngl. Because not was there the last few big releases for the platform, but half the games were literally just linux games.

@RK7 @xianc78 IMO the Mac gaming sphere died with Intel, and also the fact that you could both dualboot but also Apple in the later Intel era began to block older games from running because of 32 bit and later forcing devs to their own custom API.

@PurpCat @xianc78 That and mac video drivers being notoriously shit

@PurpCat @RK7 The killing of 32-bit support on macOS truly killed whatever was left in terms of gaming on it. Case in point, the only way to play CaveStory on Mac now is to use the nxengine or whatever the SDL2 fork is for that.

@PurpCat @RK7 The FSF has openly stated that art and level assets don't matter as long as the code is libre.

@xianc78 @RK7 you can run sengoku rance natively on linux with this
https://github.com/kichikuou/xsystem35-sdl2

@PurpCat @RK7 @xianc78 I think that's not right? Sengoku Rance is system4, not system3, so you'd want https://github.com/nunuhara/xsystem4/

But last I checked it doesn't run. I had it running before and it was good bar one notable issue: Accessing text history once it hit a certain size caused a crash.
Also >github

@xianc78 @RK7 @PurpCat Oh and I should cc @Rance in this. It's a damn shame that you couldn't do multiplayer FFA mode, so I am working on replicating it. Some things have to change, given that the game handled the player very differently to other factions, but I've worked out most of it. The only thing I'm not sure about is what to do if a player doesn't show for a fight. I could just have it wait forever until other players vote-kick the offending player(s), but I'd prefer something that can guarantee a fixed duration for each round.

@xianc78 @PurpCat someone should send this to the /g/tards

@xianc78 @PurpCat @RK7 I am glad they've acknowledged the code-only situation that many formerly proprietary games are under (Doom, Quake, etc), but I imagine that someone will still complain about it because it limits the sharing aspect.

Personally I believe the assets should be liberated too in most cases, but I can understand why that may not be a good idea especially if you are borrowing some media i.e. you have licensed music in your game, or if you want to incentivize people to buy a legit copy to use their free source port.

@bonkmaykr @PurpCat @RK7 Well there is the issue of proprietary data containing scripts for things like enemy behavior and cutscenes.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191125215630/http://onpon4.github.io/articles/gaming-trap.html

@bonkmaykr @xianc78 @PurpCat @RK7 >I can understand why that may not be a good idea especially if you are borrowing some media i.e. you have licensed music in your game,
Making a copy of an audio file is not borrowing, as both can have it and use it at the same time.

It's a foolish decision to use music under a proprietary license, even for purely economic reasons, as that *will* screw over future distribution, with the forced removal of such music being common in ports of games to newer computers.

If you have to delete some proprietary soundtracks from the free release, so be it.

>if you want to incentivize people to buy a legit copy to use their free source port.
If you want to incentivize people to pay you, you just ask for payment before you provide the binary and source code of the free software.

@Suiseiseki @PurpCat @xianc78 @RK7

> If you want to incentivize people to pay you, you just ask for payment before you provide the binary and source code of the free software.

Right, I agree.

However it is important to note that (disclaimer: I am not a lawyer) The terms of the copyright license are agreed to upon acquisition of the software, not before. Almost no free software licenses require the author to give out free copies, the GPL entitles you to the source code if you have a free binary but you are allowed to paywall access to the software. You just cannot restrict what people do with it afterwards and you have to cough up the source to anyone who gets a copy (hence putting it on a public Git repo is the obvious choice).

This means you can sell a commercial product for-profit that is also free software. You don't need to ask for a donation before opening it up for download. But you cannot add DRM to try to stop people from copying it.

@Suiseiseki @PurpCat @xianc78 @RK7 maybe you meant purchasing rather than donating and we're actually on the same page, if my comment is redundant then forgive me.

I don't think proprietary licensed music should entirely be off the table for developers because there are artistic considerations for using such music.

You make a good suggestion about simply liberating the game without the third-party music, though.

@bonkmaykr @PurpCat @xianc78 @RK7 >But you cannot add DRM to try to stop people from copying it.
The GPLv2 and GPLv3 do not forbid digital handcuffs - you are permitted to implement them - it's just that nobody bothers as you need to give the user everything they need to break them.

>I don't think proprietary licensed music should entirely be off the table
Maybe, but out of purely economic considerations alone, proprietary licensed music should be off the table unless the terms are perpetual.

@RK7 @PurpCat
>They forget that older hardware/software typically wasn't really capable of the same sort of spying/telemetry that more modern stuff is

You should see all the old FSF interviews and documentaries from around that time. There main talking point was "sharing is caring". Like I'm not a big fan of intellectual property either, but I don't think that sharing copies is the most important thing in the world.

@xianc78 @RK7 Spying/telemetry wasn't a thing (outside of stuff like NSAKey, the Clipper chip and NSA forcing weaker crypto, etc) to the extent it was today until Edward Snowden's leaks, followed by Windows 10's telemetry and the rise in warrants/arrests from tech companies snitching on users.

That's when everyone began to get worried. Especially as the big impact of Edward Snowden's leaks wasn't that people began to give a shit about online privacy (of course they didn't), but tech companies began to start things like using HTTPS everywhere and forcing the web onto it, as in the pre-Snowden era you could still browse most of the web in HTTP.

But stuff like MS-DOS was a pain to get internet/networking in (TSRs and drivers anyone?), and even now the servers that any old software would phone into are probably long since shut down mostly.

@PurpCat @RK7 I know that, but the whole "sharing is caring" thing is probably why nobody outside of (Anti-Capitalists and Austrio-Libertarians) gave a shit about FOSS until the Snowden leaks.

@xianc78 @PurpCat @RK7 GNU/JIHAD AGAINST "FOSS" AND ALL OTHER FORMS OF PROPRIETARY DEGENERACY!!!!!!!

FREE SOFTWARE.

@PurpCat @xianc78 People really do forget the FSF basically was birthed into existence purely by the eternal fact of printers being shitty and a frustrated nerd being pissed he couldn't fix the driver.

@RK7 @PurpCat @xianc78 It was made because he could fix the printer software and someone had the source code to fix it, but that person refused to provide it, as he had betrayed humanity by signing a NDA to not do so.

This was the time before copyright applied to software, thus if you had the source code, you had the 4 freedoms.

@xianc78 @RK7 @PurpCat Imaginary property does not exist; https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html

The most important things in the world are freedom, community and sharing.

@RK7 @PurpCat @xianc78 >fully reverse engineered games
Due to copyright law, those are proprietary software and often are illegal to distribute - the source code is no good if you don't have the 4 freedoms; https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html#four-freedoms

Free software clones of games written from scratch are good, as they respect the users freedom and often are functionally better than the original.

>older hardware/software typically wasn't really capable of the same sort of spying/telemetry
Yes, older hardware and software didn't have spying, but this was due to technical limitations only - if the internet was more accessible at the time, they would have done what is being done at the moment.

Old hardware and software was full of digital handcuffs, it's just that most of those handcuffs have now been broken or are bypassed.

@xianc78 @PurpCat Tux Racer was in fact made proprietary.

Meanwhile, Extreme Tux Racer is free.

Proprietary games don't respect your 4 freedoms; https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html#four-freedoms thus they do leave you isolated and helpless.

@KaiserKitty @xianc78 read into the cp/m story on why this is the case too. It wasn't just UNIX.

@PurpCat @xianc78 @rher You sure love spreading disinformation don't you?

GNU Linux-libre works just fine on my machines.

What GNU Linux-libre does is remove proprietary software and proprietary software loading machinery and makes such patches so that some drivers work without proprietary software and so, if your hardware is not utter garbage, it will just work.

AY NIGGA

@rher @xianc78 linux is in most cases only a few years behind the release date of new hardware. and that's only because i'm not counting out-of-tree drivers

@xianc78 @phnt @rher What are you even on about?

The free software movements aims to eliminate all proprietary software, no matter whether a small or big business distributes it.

Each line of freedom is fired at the intended target.

@p They will reject FreeDOS because most people use it to play old, proprietary DOS games.

@xianc78 You can play the DOS port of Nethack. https://nethack.org/v343/ports/download-msdos.html