@lina @Alice @ChristiJunior @Aldo2 It's because Aldo actually got banned. He is still on the fedi, but he is on some MAP instance now. I don't know the specifics, but I think he was sharing photos of minors that were completely legal on their own, but he was sexualizing them and that could be considered CP.
Maijčika 
@ube@spergia.net
My rule: all porn can only involve dead people.
Solves everything.
The dead, by being dead, are naturally consenting.
@amerika @ChristiJunior@detroitriotcity.com @lina@eientei.org @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
I made a post recently about how eventually people are going to argue that everyone should just have their eyes gouged-out and their ears permanently blocked and their brains lobotomized, to protect the children from being "sexualized" in any manner whatsoever (even in thought!).
Of course, Beard will, as he always does, blame "PEEEEEEDOS" for all these restrictions, instead of the almost totalitarian Puritan Christian-derived thought-policing coming from the top of our society.
Pedophilia as a paraphilia is broken. Smart societies remove (asylumize, exile, etc) people with that problem because they are genetically broken.
Then there are people on the internet who LARP as semi-pedos in order to give society the finger.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
It's not broken, lol.
It's the OG "sexuality". Pedophilia IS "sexuality".
I don't view it as a "paraphilia" per se.
Sexuality is part of the drive for reproduction, itself part of the will to survive and thrive.
Paraphilias reflect any sexuality which deviates from that path.
There is a carve-out for homosexuality, which seems to serve a separate and parallel biological role.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
The notion that "sexuality = reproductive drive" is a Christian notion, related to the "masturbation is a sin because you're not procreating" notion, related to the "pleasure is sin" notion.
And, of course, you're ignoring biological puberty, which can start as early as 10 or 11 (i.e. technically during pre-pubescence) anyways ("early bloomers").
Even then, many animals (including primates) engage in inter-generational sex.
Funny that you'd be using Christian reasoning re: sex...
There's nothing wrong about sex for pleasure. Pleasure is good.
Is that pleasure, or a proxy for it?
Sex = reproduction is biology, not Christianity.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
No dude, it's Christianity.
You'll find that the arguments you're making are all made by Christians.
No secularist will make a sweeping assertion like "sex is only for reproduction". Only religious nutjobs do/have done that.
Christians reject biological determinism
They want to constrain biology with morality
I am pointing that in healthy animals, sexuality is a biological urge
Sometimes they stroke it or whatever, but that is more a side effect of the hormone dose it gives them
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
No they don't, "biological determinism" is a key part of Christian theology and politics.
They want to link biology to morality, just as you do by calling for the exile of pedophiles form society.
In primates (our closest relatives), sexuality is not purely reproductive-focused. Most primates engage in masturbation (i.e. stimulating sexual organs for pleasure).
You need to do more actual research rather than just looking at people who already agree with you.
Biological determinism is the opposite of "all souls are equal" which is one of the tenets of Christianity as practiced.
Back to the Scopes Monkey Trial.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
Ah, so you're a Darwinian purist. Have you read what Nietzsche thought of Darwin?
When I say Christians preach "biological determinism" I mean "man and woman are separate" "marriage is a Christian institution" "family values" "Christ made the natural world" etc... etc...
I mean Christians trying to control nature (biology).
"Christian universalism" is a useful strawman, but that's all it is.
The point is, pedophilia and sex for pleasure is part of the natural world (in particular part of our nearest evolutionary relatives).
A horse in the wild accidentally rubs up against a soft plant. This stimulates its dong. The horse thinks for a moment, keeps rubbing, and finally has a neighing orgasm in the bushes.
He may do it again.
However, this is incidental to his primary role with sexuality, which is designed for reproduction. He wants little foals that look like him and some hottie mare.
Humans confuse masturbation with direction.
It is a symbol and nothing more. "Sex=fun" therefore my goal is fun therefore my goal is sex.
Again, paraphiliac thinking, similar to extreme neurosis.
Promiscuity and hypergamy are the same way.
People confuse the method with the goal. More sex does not equal greater reproductive success except in desperate circumstances.
Neurotics assume those because they are self-pitying in order to justify their egotism.
im curious what you mean by carving out homosexuality though
@ube @amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78
In terms of "biological ability to reproduce"? Yeah, MAP is more applicable.
And even then, you have "early bloomers" that are capable of having children (i.e. they undergo puberty) even at ages like 9 or 10.
But I'm not exclusively talking about reproduction. I'm more focused on the ability to have a mature relationship.
Relationships are not exclusively formed with the intent of having children. That comes later.
Yes, there is a problem is people conflating "pedophilia" with "nepiophilia" ("baby rapist!!!"), in fact, people tend to conflate all these terms. That is most likely due to the hysteria surrounding "Peeeedos!!!!!111!!!!", which has made people switch their brains off whenever the subject of AoC/child-sexuality comes up.
tangentially related but americans and those influenced by that puritan dogma seem to be among he only who completely fail to have a serious normal discussion on the subject matter. i can think of many relationships with 14/15 on the lower end and older adults that were open and socially acceptable back home in latvia where americans are starting to even freak out about 18yos as if theyre the same as toddlers. i dont need them to agree sure but the common emotional lashout is obnoxious at best
@ube @amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78
One of my friends from school met his then girlfriend when he was babysitting her (she might have been like 10 or maybe even younger, I think?). They were together for something like 7 or 8 years. When he was in university she was still in school. They didn't have children, but it was a sweet relationship, there was no abuse, both parents gave their permission, and he refused to do penetrative sex until she was 16 (even though she was the one demanding sex from him, and not vice-versa).
Another one of my friends from school met his future wife and mother of 3 daughters when they were like 12 or 13. They were fucking in school (in our study, of all places) like rabbits. One time when we went down to the local town on a break he stopped off at the pharmacy to pick up a pregnancy test!
Speaking of the Baltics, did you know Estonia only changed their AoC from 14 to 16 in 2022?! I could have gone to Estonia when I was in university and banged a "barely legal" teenager, haha!
Americans genuinely can't fathom a "minor" having a relationship with an "adult". Their brain short-circuits. Smoke comes out of their ears and their eyes roll back into their head.
@ube @amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78
I'm not saying that I would, or that I have, and obv if I did it would have been in the context of a relationship/romance haha
One time I was sitting on a couch at a house-party, and a schoolgirl that I was joking around with earlier jumped on me and basically shoved her ass in my face while her boyfriend was in the room and I was just there looking at him like "dude, this was not me, I'm not trying anything".
Point is, "minors" have sex, pursue sex, in many cases pursue older partners (under the belief that older = more experienced, which is not always true), and are capable of making mature decisions related to sex. Only Anglo-Americans moralist Puritans seem to believe otherwise.
Most continental Europeans, even those living in states with AoC at 16+, when pressed, acknowledge that, as long as there is clear consent and no actual abuse, then it's fine (just keep it on the dl). My theory is that the people in those states remember when the AoC was 14 or 13 or even 12 (AoC in Spain in 1995, look it up) and therefore know that the 16+ thing is bullshit.
@ube @amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78
Tfw the AoC in Portugal is straight-up 14 with no "close-in age-gap" shit or other restrictions.
Portuguese Stans, RISE UP!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibS_7Ao7eho&ab_channel=IanBerwick
This came up recently with the Jeff Becerra fiasco
Some dudes have sex with young girls from a reproductive drive = biology
Some dudes have sex with young girls for the forbidden thrill = psychosis
The latter group are one variant of the type of people healthy societies exile.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
Two things can exist at the same time.
Kinks exist for a reason.
Your desire to "purify" society is not a good thing, as you think. It's actually a limiting factor.
Purify?
I think you are misreading me; I am a eugenicist, not a moralist.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
Wrong word, you get my meaning.
Pedophilia is arguably more eugenecist than the current sex-negative views that permeate Western society.
Somewhere between sex-negative and sex-positive there is sanity.
That is seeing sex as biology and reducing its importance to that role.
This is the opposite of what the Abrahamists do, which is create paraphilias by making sex taboo.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
Yeah, it's not like I'm saying people should be allowed to just grab the nearest child and rape them, lol
I'm not saying reproduction has no place in society. On the contrary, I'm affirming it. You can't reproduce without sexual pleasure. This is why Christians say "we are all born in sin".
What I'm arguing for is a healthy moderated, controlled hedonism, in the spirit of Voltaire, Nietzsche and many other great thinkers.
Yes, I can agree with you on paraphilias. They wouldn't exist in the same way they do currently if there wasn't sex-puritanism restricting people from the pleasure they seek.
You can reproduce without sexual pleasure. Lots of people did it for most of human history.
The Christians turned it into this weird game of symbolism, and from that we got a lot of weird transgressive stuff.
Again, I think legalizing only pornography that uses dead people would fix this problem right quick.
@amerika @beardalaxy @xianc78 @ube
And how did the children/families turn out?
Aren't there memes of how dysfunctional people became because of this? Lol
Forgive me, but I thought you were genuinely just making a joke when you said "dead people porn"...I didn't expect you to actually be serious...
In my experience, the kids from less sexualized households turned out better, IFF we control for crazy middle eastern religions.
Hell, the kids of alcoholics turned out better than the Christian kids, and Jewish families are hard on their children. Islamic families vary a lot with caste and national origin.
@xianc78 @lina@eientei.org @ChristiJunior@detroitriotcity.com
Nope.
The photos I shared (a non-nude promotional photo of Chloe Moretz from the movie "Hick") did not violate the Dost Test or the Miller Test as they were non-pornographic and only involved me changing some colours. The Miller test is about "obscene porn", and the Dost Test is about sexualization.
Beard argued that because I said Chloe Moretz was attractive in Kickass and Hick (which she was) and put some censored loli porn from R34 in the thread (the reason for that was pointing out that R34 still has some loli porn on it, even though it's against R34 "rules") that it was "sexualization". Beard has had a growing tendency to engage in ridiculous policing based on his extremely subjective opinions.
The reason I got banned was because I was having an argument with Beard over AoC and I stated that of course if I was in favor of lowering the AoC then naturally that meant that I believed that having relations with (what would currently be considered) "minors" wasn't actually a bad thing and should be legalized or at the very very least destigmatized. That post is what got my account suspended.
Funny that Beard didn't say...
