@beardalaxy @graf Okay, maybe I could whip something simple up. I can't promise any paywalled content because I'm not familiar with any payment processor or crypto APIs.

I haven't messed with backend dev in a while though. I'm just afraid that whatever I create won't be scalable.

@xianc78 @graf yeah, i'm thinking of something like itch.io but free from censorship, only with opt-in tags for more "objectionable content" instead of just a general "adult" rating system or whatever. and also mod hubs for games of course, both ones hosted on and off the site.

a lot of sites like these end up not garnering lots of traction because they get a lot of extremist (or "extremist") content on them, which leads people to not want to use them. if you had to opt-in to see any of that i think it would make it much more compelling to visit for most people. there are lots of boorus that already do this and they don't really have any issues. they just require an account, and require opt-in.

as far as payment goes, if we're just talking mods then the only real option is to just have donation links. games are a lot trickier and would probably have to be crypto. you could always just let the game authors handle it themselves though i suppose and just use the website as a means of pushing their game out to more people, you know what i mean?

i don't expect anyone to just randomly start working on this and hosting it though lol. it was really just a thought that i had floating around after seeing more mods being banned for stupid fucking reasons.

@beardalaxy @xianc78 @graf >a lot of sites like these end up not garnering lots of traction because they get a lot of extremist (or "extremist") content on them, which leads people to not want to use them. if you had to opt-in to see any of that i think it would make it much more compelling to visit for most people. there are lots of boorus that already do this and they don't really have any issues. they just require an account, and require opt-in.

This is one way the fedi took off in both controversial circles and more mainstream ones. Hosting a Mastodon/fedi server isn't a red flag because a lot of normies use it. It's the same reason Japanese art sites that happen to host lolisho draw vastly less heat than an art site designed solely to host this content (see InkBunny, and Baraag's rep here).

@beardalaxy @graf I was also thinking something like itch.io. I had an idea of creating an indie game marketplace for a while, but my lack of knowledge with online payment processing and the difficulty of hosting a service with large files prevents me from implementing it. I could use something like WebTorrent to save server space, but that would mean that people can easily just share the magnet URIs and download whatever they want on the site for free (assuming the know the correct URI).

Now that I think about it. I think @alex was thinking about creating a NewGrounds spiritual successor. Not necessarily a marketplace like itch.io, but I think he could incorporate some of your ideas (likes mods or commercial games) into it.

@xianc78 @graf @alex I don't think it necessarily has to have a commercial element to it beyond just donating and stuff. Certainly not from the beginning.

Like I said, it might be better to just let the creators handle that sort of thing at least at first. RPGMaker.net is a good example of that, they don't have any way of commercializing a game directly but let you link to somewhere that does. Could also always go back to like, the shareware days where a demo is hosted and if you send mail with payment they'll send you the game or something xD that would legit be pretty funny. I mean, fuckin Mullvad lets you do that so why not an indie dev? xD

But yeah, I'd be down with a NG spiritual successor. NG itself is already pretty damn good and always has been tbh, there are rules and things they don't allow of course but it's still a really good place to show off your creativity in a place that's not so corporate. but it'd be dope to have a place like that which actually allows a lot more stuff. i like the community aspect of it and it's pretty much the only place that has star rankings anymore xD

@beardalaxy @graf @alex
>Like I said, it might be better to just let the creators handle that sort of thing at least at first. RPGMaker.net is a good example of that, they don't have any way of commercializing a game directly but let you link to somewhere that does.

I think GameJolt used to be like an engine-agnostic YoYoGames or RPGMaker.net, but in recent years, they allowed commercial games on their platform, so they are more like itch.io these days.

>Could also always go back to like, the shareware days where a demo is hosted and if you send mail with payment they'll send you the game or something xD that would legit be pretty funny. I mean, fuckin Mullvad lets you do that so why not an indie dev? xD

There are newer games for older computers/operating systems that do that just for nostalgia purposes, though I think they are payed through things like PayPal.

>But yeah, I'd be down with a NG spiritual successor. NG itself is already pretty damn good and always has been tbh

I never used it much tbh. It seemed like all the flash game creators on there eventually got their own websites, so I was on those sites more. (kind of weird that the exact opposite is happening today with everyone posting on Big Tech platforms, but I guess people eventually realized that they can monetize their games by self-hosting and putting banner-ads) I also played more of the "professional-quality" flash games like the ones on AddictingGames, MiniClip, and XGEN. Most of those games were developed by actual companies, though they are probably considered indie by today's standards.

>there are rules and things they don't allow of course but it's still a really good place to show off your creativity in a place that's not so corporate.

Didn't they bend the knee to BLM? I remember everyone bitching about how they brought back Tankman just for a BLM virtue signalling video. I think they also had an influx of Tumblr users back when Tumblr banned porn, so the culture might have changed.

@xianc78 no idea tbh. I only went back in the last couple of years. It seems like it's maybe more lax than something like YouTube generally speaking, and then it has porn there too lmao. You're unlikely to get away with "hateful content" or loli, but pretty much everything else seems to fly. I have seen animations there that some freaks would be like "that's racist/sexist!" when really it's just being done for comedy, that kind of thing.

@beardalaxy It seems like they are really only known for FNF and their Flash emulator now.

@beardalaxy @graf Call me crazy, but I've actually started working on it. I'm just DESPERATE to put something on my resume. I only have parts of the front-end done, but the thing is written in PHP with the navbar and footer loaded dynamically.

@xianc78 @graf holy based you're a madman

@beardalaxy @graf I just got the database partially working. Actual file uploads aren't support yet and the logos are obviously placeholders. I'm going for a Wii Shop Channel inspired layout.

I'm actually feeling really guilty about this because this shows how much free time I actually have, but this is good resume experience and that's how I justify it.

@xianc78 @beardalaxy if you get it done ill pick up some hardware but you guys are gonna have to come up with a name

@graf I'll let @beardalaxy decide. It was his idea after all.

@xianc78 @graf uhhh give me a bit to think about it lol. I'd be more than happy to field submissions as well.

@beardalaxy @graf What do you think about these names?

@xianc78 @graf hmm, I can't help but think they all just sound exactly like other sites but sightly tweaked, which makes sense because it's chat gpt. It'd be better to have something more unique if possible. Then again, all of my creativity is going towards other things right now lmao. I might think up something good.

@beardalaxy @graf Got the submit form, but the script to handle the form hasn't been written yet.

@xianc78 @graf it's just a concept I know, but remember content filters and maybe let them choose what platform their upload is for with a dropdown too you know? Would be cool if the site could support homebrew as well.
I know this is for game submissions but as far as mods go it would definitely need a few more options too :)
But you're doing crazy work!

@xianc78 @graf just noticed your login name lol

@beardalaxy @graf I just banged at the keyboard when writing it down. I wasn't even thinking about Gondola.

@beardalaxy @graf I still have content filters in mind. I just haven't implemented them yet. I was thinking that tags can be used to filter content. I know that there are some people who don't mind seeing NSFW games, but don't want to see loli or furry shit, so yeah I plan on including them.

I plan on having a separate submission page for mods.

@xianc78 @graf dope, dope x)

tags would work for it yeah, just as long as the stuff like loli or whatever is opt-in instead of opt-out. Whitelist instead of blacklist, kind of thing :)

@beardalaxy @graf Okay, having multiple platforms in a drop-down will be easier said than done, due to the way SQL tables work.

For mods, I might need two database tables for them. One for the mods themselves and another one for the games the mods were made for (since mods will also be for games not hosted on the site).

@xianc78 @graf you're the man, i don't know shit about this stuff lol

@beardalaxy @graf Also remember that features don't have to be implemented right away. It's best to start small.

I was thinking of having an "other" option for anything that's not Windows, macOS, or Linux because when I though of fedi gamedevs, I remembered that @crunklord420 makes TempleOS games. However, if I implement it that way there would only be one "other" category which might be a problem if you support multiple obscure platforms.

How does itch.io implement this? I know that they officially support Windows, macOS, and Linux, but I see a few homebrew games on there.

@xianc78 @graf @crunklord420 For their genres, they are more specifically defined, which is good imo. There are only like 15 or so of them, plus "no genre" and "other."

Then they have tags, which can be anything you want although it will pop up with suggestions (probably based on what other people have put in there).

Itch.io actually only has 4 selectable platforms, being Windows, Mac OS, Linux, and Android. That's for each download. You can also just select no platform for your download at all, in which case you'd probably just want to specify in the file name itself. Or, somewhere in the tags/description if it is integral to your game. So I think an "Other" option would likely be totally fine.

@beardalaxy @graf @crunklord420 Yeah and if they have multiple obscure ports, they can bundle them all in the same zip file.

@beardalaxy @graf Script now handles submissions, but still no file uploads (still trying decide how to store them). You can also now browse by genre and a view game page has been created.

@beardalaxy @graf Uploads have now been implemented along with logos and screenshots. I just need to include tags, patch any possible exploits, and then I can move onto mods.

@xianc78 @graf damn dude you're making very quick work of this

@beardalaxy @graf I can't believe myself either. But my biggest fear is that someone else finds some exploit that can break the site.

@beardalaxy @graf Tags have now been added, but they don't do anything yet.

@beardalaxy @graf Added a profile view. Right now, it only shows a list of games published by the user.

@beardalaxy @graf Profiles now have bios. This bio is just taken from a random MobyGames page.

(Ian Fisch, if you are reading this, I hope you don't mind.)

@beardalaxy @graf I am now proud to say that tag-filtering has now been implemented.

@beardalaxy @graf Working on an edit game page and an admin control panel right now.

@beardalaxy @graf I'm still working on the site. I was working on my game and was busy with work for the past week. I'm trying to make it that you can upload more than 3 screenshots (I realized that there is a better way to do it).

@beardalaxy @graf You can now upload more than 3 screenshots. Previously, the game table in the database had 3 columns for screenshots. Now, screenshots are in their own table.

@beardalaxy @graf I'm currently patching some possible SQL injection exploits. After that, I will move on to mods.

@beardalaxy @graf Just started working on mod submissions and created a mods table in the database. Once I fully implement mod uploads, all I just need to do is finish the admin/mod panels, create an installation script, and I'm done. Unless you guys have other ideas, of course.

@beardalaxy @graf Mod submissions have been implemented along with a view mod page. Though mods can't be search, yet.

@beardalaxy @graf A browse mods page has now been implemented.

Here is a rough estimate of what still needs to be done:

* The ability to search for anything by title
* Pagination in the browse pages
* Edit game/mods page - Technically I finished it, but re-implementing the way screenshots work means that I have to modify it. I also need to create an edit page for mods as well.
* Delete game/mod script - Working on that right now. I need to make sure that deleting a game/mod also deletes the screenshots and other files
* Delete/ban user - Again need to make sure the deletion is a cascade.
* Admin control panel - This is a list on it's own. I need to make sure the admin has control of everything.
* Report tool - I have a report table in the database, but I haven't implemented reports yet.
* Client-side form validation - This is only for the benefit of the user. Basically, it's JavaScript that validates a form before sending it to the server so the user doesn't have to press the back button if they mess up
* The ability to change passwords
* User avatars
* Links on user profiles - Links to relevant social media, websites, and donation pages
* User comments - Haven't even started implementing them yet.
* User ratings - Haven't even started on this either
* Contact page - Either you or graf will need to set up email addresses to contact the site's staff
* Installation script - Finally, I will need to write a PHP script that will automatically create the database, the necessary file structure, and the first admin account.

Things I'm Considering:

* Moderators - Right now, there are only admins and standard users. I could add support for moderators, but I don't know what privileges they would have that admins won't. Admins can basically edit and delete any content along with banning any user. I feel like moderators would basically have the same privileges as admins in this case. On forums, the only difference is that moderators can't create boards or change ranks of other users. I don't know what the difference would be here.
* Forums - I could either have one forum per game/mod or have general forums for discussing things like game development, modding, or gaming in general. Though adding either of these would just add more complexity and more work for any admins or moderators. Maybe later if the site becomes an active place.

Take note that even though I have meager experience with back-end development, I was never an admin or moderator on any forum, blog, wiki, or any other community site, so my knowledge on this is quite limited.

Anyway, I plan on having this thing done by the end of next month, if not earlier.