@Laconicif
I will watch it today. I heard it referenced too many times, but have no idea what it's about.

@LukeAlmighty

There is a three part movie version of the book, but I haven’t watched it so can’t say how well it captures the messages in the book

@Laconicif
*Watches first 15 minutes...

This is SOOOO boring. Why would I want to watch modern corporate world.

*finds out it was written 70 years ago

oh... OHhhh....

@LukeAlmighty

Yet, here we are, sleep walking into the dystopia we’ve been warned about over and over..

@LukeAlmighty

Also..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

@Laconicif
It's easy to bail out one friend when you have 4 of them total, but if he want's to make it 3, I seriously don't feel like arguing anymore.

@Laconicif
Wait a minute...

So this is one of the first and definitelly most famous MGTOW manifesto... Written by a woman?

Now that is something I will need a few days to think about...

@Laconicif
Hi again. I see it was a week since we began talking about this topic, but I needed the time to think about it. If I am just anoying you, feel free to say so.

I can clearly see that the book was a product of it's time. I know that it might sound like a universal critique, but what I mean is that although the society did begin to fall apart even back there, it took only the best to see the roots of it.

Now, we can see problems with the society much more clearly, so there are different problems that need consideration.

The entire philosophy of objectivism seems to be it's core anti-comunity. that is obvious, but what is the family but a small community? While this is the point of atlas shrugged on the big scale, it makes you wander if the book itsef (that I will have to read now) does actually offer any solution.

Can you actualy create an objectivist community? Can a family be formed in this way? And if not, are there actually any people who did a better job at anwsering these questions, then the usual "man up" that we can still get from intelectuals like "Jordan Peterson"?

@Shinobufag
Not *that close.
Let's say he's making it wayyy too easy for me to block him out of my life, but I'm afraid he's doing it only to save me from pain when he plays russian roulette alone.

@LukeAlmighty i'd say you're still pretty close to him if you care about him to the point where you saved up money to help him out if he's ever in need

@Shinobufag
Well, I am an empathetic person. I cannot watch a person suffer when it's so easy to help. (Well, with obvious exceptions. There are people I woudn't piss on if they were on fire of course.)

Everyone has some serious character problems... This one is mine.

@sim
> Does he ever pay for food for you when you are out together?

He bought me a book against my wish. I said he's in debt and I make 4 times what he does. He's not using me, because he cannot even accept what is given.

Because he gave up on life 5 years ago, and now, he's just post-poning till he get's in the mood to check out.

It turns out, checking out is harder then he thought at first, but part of him already seem to have accepted that fate.

@LukeAlmighty Well, at least he is willing to buy things now and then. You could probably still let him buy small things for you if you aren't already because that'll help. But his lifestyle and resentment is still a worry, given that it can apply to you with his opinions on rich people.

It is definitely difficult to check out. This is a difficult situation to be in for you both. I wish I knew how better to help but until he wants to get healthier and change, get clean off the drugs and get out of debt... I don't know that there is anything you can do.

@sim
That's the thing.

Few years ago, he gave up and broke. That was before I knew him. He got into the debt with intent to just spend the money and leave.

Then, he got better and even got a professional help. He has been working his ass off to get out ef debt etc.. But when the government lockdowns hit, company cut his pay, hours and he got a lot more ready to leave again...

@LukeAlmighty Ahh, that makes a bit more sense. I can understand how being stuck in that situation would cause him to get ready to leave again. It seems like a hopeless situation to be in. I hope he is able to find help again, these are difficult times to be in. The debt thing was silly, but you don't tend to think straight when you are ready to tap out.

@sim
@Shinobufag
@Laconicif
@guizzy
Anyway, thanks for taking the moment to talk with me about the topic. I realy needed to take this shit out of my system...

@LukeAlmighty @Shinobufag @Laconicif @guizzy No problem. Glad it could help you to at least get the topic off your chest.

@LukeAlmighty @sim Did you ask him if he considered how his hate of "rich people" applies to you?

Usually when debating these kind of opinions (hatred of a category of people based on prejudice) the person tries to make an exception of their interlocutor not insult the person they're talking to if the category applies to them. That's usually a good loose thread to pull on to unravel the hate, you can use that to make them realize they have no idea whether the others they hate without knowing personally have the same characteristics that make you an exception.

@guizzy @sim
That is one thing where I am sure he realizes it, since he several times already blamed me from believing total fabrications that have nothing to do with my opinions.

He has a seriously twisted picture of what I do believe, and it makes sense that my relative wealth could have shaped that opinion.

@LukeAlmighty @sim I see, so his philosophical outlook is a post hoc rationalization for feeling bad on a more basic level. "I feel bad. I'm thinking straight so it can't be me, it must be the world that's bad. Who made the world bad? Rich people." Helps him avoid dealing with clinical depression. That's a tough one to deal with.

I think best way to help him as a friend is to invite him to activities that break the cycle (feeling bad, so not inclined to do anything, so there's nothing to feel good about). Taking in sunlight, exercising, etc... I know that's the kind of stuff that helped me get over it when I was in a similar situation.

@guizzy @LukeAlmighty Yeah, I would honestly suggest doing this. If you can do stuff together that costs you both nothing then even better. Like going for walks in the park, going places that are free that interest you both like a museum. Maybe cycle together if you are into that. Ticks all those boxes of sunlight, exercising and it is an activity you can enjoy together. Or gardening if you have a garden, that's very therapeutic.

@LukeAlmighty @guizzy It's really hard to tell... this relationship doesn't seem like it is equal and benefits you both. I could also see that you buying things for him shapes things, he might be justifying taking your money by misrepresenting your views too. People have a hard time appreciating and accepting unearned gifts and money. They may end up feeling indebted to the person unless they can give something of equal value in return. Rejecting their gifts won't help in equalising the relationship even with debt in the picture. If you carry this relationship on, letting him get something small or do something with you like a house project could go towards helping there. Whatever he would like to do. Don't let him feel indebted or use you. Talk to him about all this if you feel that you can safely. Because, of course, his opinions might have nothing to do with this or you being wealthier... he might just be like this. Misrepresenting people in general, selective hearing and understanding. A character flaw of his.

@sim @LukeAlmighty Yeah, helping him financially in this situation isn't really going to help him, it might even make things worse. His problem is not how he sees rich people, it's how he sees himself. And having things paid for him isn't going to improve his self-image. You've got the right idea here with asking for his help. He's more likely to feel better about himself if he feels he's contributing.

@guizzy @LukeAlmighty Yeah, I think people generally feel better if they are contributing. Particularly if you want to improve self-esteem. Hopefully between us we've given some good advice or things to think about. Also, you could still pay for the food if you have your friend over to help on a project. That is generally acceptable. He could even bring something small along himself if he wanted.

@LukeAlmighty

Probably got his brain fucked with lack of nutrition too. Needs his omegas and Bs

If it's a lack of solid purpose for himself, and he doesn't mind it, throw me his contact please.