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@icedquinn
No... this is precisely what I would have expected. Women have no evolutionary pressure to select for happy men. They evolved to select for successful and powerful men. That's pretty much it. Men's emotions don't play much of a role in that. The slight pride uptick is more of a byproduct of successful men.
On the other side of the coin, the evolutionary pressure on men is to protect women and ensure their happiness, because men's goal is to make women faithful to them. So from the start, women being happy is what men want.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
So is the general idea that women on dating sites just happen to be far worse people than women in the general population?
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
I think that's wishful thinking.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
Too much of the population uses online dating to still claim sampling is flawed to this extent.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
If the irregularity was close to what you see in IQ bell curves between the sexes, or between races, you could have had a point. But this is an extreme difference.
If someone uses a dating app for 1 month, pairs off with someone, then deletes the app, you get less data out of them.
If someone uses the dating app for 12 months unsuccessfully, then you get a lot of data out of them.
Most of this data is coming from people who stayed on the dating app and didn't pair off successfully.
actually people with success using it for serial hookups might end up with the highest representation since they're the only ones incentivized to stay in the long term
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
A single person who stays 12 months on a dating site is not gonna become 12 data points, while a person that stays 1 month only provides 1 data point. That's not how studies are made. This is a severely erroneous assumption. If someone were to make this mistake in constructing a study, I would demand they be thrown out of academia.
Studies show a snapshot in 1 point of time, where each individual is 1 data point. That's it. You don't need to track the views of people who got married out of dating sites to get an unbiased view on how dating men rate women and vice-versa.
the study is a snapshot, but the point is, what is it a snapshot _of_?
@roboneko @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @icedquinn @Ashalam
>so certain populations will build up on the site
I disagree.
if every day you add 5 red and 5 blue marbles to a bag. and then you remove 10% of the red ones and 30% of the blue ones. you will not have a 50/50 mix in the bag
@roboneko @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @icedquinn @Ashalam
I've explained far too much already. At this point I'm feeling like I'm talking to a stubborn wall.
@roboneko @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @icedquinn @Ashalam
You seriously don't get to say that. No.
I've done quite a bit of that math for various reasons and I still frequently get confused by it
which brings up another good example. genetic algorithms. they operate on a very similar principle. lots of trash goes in, stuff that's only slightly better gets selected for slightly more frequently, and eventually you're left with really good stuff
it's the basic principle on which (just for starters) genetics, distillation, and chemical equilibria all operate
I will point that the OKCupid data is not an academic study - it is a corporation publishing their data.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
Sorry man, nothing you said convinces me that this severe difference can be explained away. There is something else underlying there, that you refuse to believe, because you're probably still stuck in your mind believing women are flawless beings.
News flash: they're not.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
And it's hilarious, that EVEN IN YOUR ARGUMENTS for why men handsome would be less represented in the data, YOU ARGUE that women are more picky, have much higher standards etc. But then you desperately try to disprove data that shows EXACTLY THAT.
It would do you well to slow down for a moment and think.
> you're probably still stuck in your mind believing women are flawless beings. News flash: they're not.
lmao I can see you aren't at all familiar with the sort of things he posts
of all the people to say that to
I did not think it constructive to play into the emotional issue. I sincerely wanted him to understand that there is more at play with these dating app statistics than he believes.
One is that the men who remain on dating apps are actually uglier than the average, and that women who remain on dating apps are not.
One is that women who remain on dating apps have skewed ideas about male attractiveness.
One is that women can pick up on male desperation - and the most desperate men remain on the dating apps.
Each of those "sounds" right to at least someone. But they tell totally different stories. If anything, these sorts of statistics should be read as an argument for not using dating sites - they tell you a lot about the people who are on them.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
>One is that the men who remain on dating apps are actually uglier than the average, and that women who remain on dating apps are not.
This is severe wishful thinking. It implies handsome men get enough action IRL that they don't need dating apps, but somehow beautiful women don't get enough action IRL?! Considering men are the chasers, and women the chasees, if anything it's gonna be beautiful women that have more than enough attention from men IRL that they don't need to use dating apps.
>One is that women who remain on dating apps have skewed ideas about male attractiveness.
This implies women have unrealistic expectations about men.
>One is that women can pick up on male desperation - and the most desperate men remain on the dating apps.
This is similar to your first interpretation, in that only the less desirable and thus desperate men use dating apps. If this was still 10-15 years ago, maybe I could still buy the "this is not representative of real world" argument, but dating apps have gone into mainstream years ago. And once again considering the chaser-chasee dynamic, if anything such hypothesis would fit better the women demographic. If anything you would expect there to be disproportionally more desperate women on dating sites, cause the non-desperate women simply get their attention from IRL.
Men are chasers, and chasers are gonna go wherever the pray lies. We already know from other studies that men are far more likely to date down than women are. And you don't even need studies to see that fact. Just look at the articles from women column writers that complain they can't find a man that is smarter, more educated, and makes more $ than them. They can't even think about dating someone with less social status then themselves.
But men don't have than hung up, and all too often we see men being perfectly accepting of dating down, or sometimes even desire it.
>This is severe wishful thinking. It implies handsome men get enough action IRL that they don't need dating apps, but somehow beautiful women don't get enough action IRL?!
It may also have been the case that mainly attractive men got selected out of the dating app pool (because they paired up with someone) and that the attractiveness of women had no impact on them being removed from the dating app pool. This makes some sense - on dating apps, men often match with everyone they can (so there is no selection for attractiveness) and women pick and choose (so there is some selection for attractiveness).
For the second:
>This implies women have unrealistic expectations about men.
It may also be that women who remain on dating apps are overly choosy - that they have overly high standards which are preventing them from pairing off with a mate.
For the third:
>This is similar to your first interpretation, in that only the less desirable and thus desperate men use dating apps.
I correct you here by saying that it suggests that only the less desirable men *remain* on dating apps. People who use the app, pair off, then delete the app are undersampled in this data.
I mainly want to make the point that there's a lot of ways to look at the data. I think it is wrong to draw broad conclusions from these graphs.
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @roboneko @icedquinn @Ashalam
>It may also have been the case that mainly attractive men got selected out of the dating app pool (because they paired up with someone) and that the attractiveness of women had no impact on them being removed from the dating app pool. This makes some sense - on dating apps, men often match with everyone they can (so there is no selection for attractiveness) and women pick and choose (so there is some selection for attractiveness).
I love how your argument goes back to: men don't have unrealistic expectations about women, so they will match with everyone they can, while women have unrealistic expectations about men.
Besides, why would attractive men get selected so much easier out from the app dating pool, when, even if they don't have much expectations, they still need to pass the woman's expectations to get selected out. It's not like a man just swipes "yes" a hundred times and he gets guaranteed a date. There's still 2 levels of selection here: the less strict selection the man makes, and the strict one that women make.
An attractive women on the other hand... it's not exactly news that a beautiful women can pretty much have anyone she wants. She wont get much resistance once she picks someone.
And then there's also the issue of men being far more likely to date multiple women at the same time. So you'll have men stick around anyway to cheat. And let's be honest, it's not the unattractive men that get the privilege to play that game.
I simply don't see how there would be an imbalance, that favors eliminating handsome men from app dating pools but somehow favors beautiful women remain in place.
>It may also be that women who remain on dating apps are overly choosy - that they have overly high standards which are preventing them from pairing off with a mate.
Or in other words, women have unrealistic expectations about men.
> only the less desirable men *remain* on dating apps.
You're just doing useless word games at this point, and bad ones at that. The data simply shows distribution of people using dating apps at a point in time. You act like there's been some historical process that has magically eliminated ONLY the handsome men, that no undesirable men have given up dating or have stopped using dating apps for various reasons, that no undesirable men have improved themselves to be more desirable, or that no new desirable men have entered or returned to the dating pool. The reality is that the dating pool is always dynamic, in that people come and go, but the demographic distributions are gonna stay similar, because that's how things tend to compensate over time.
It's weird how sterile and academic the discussion got. People, both men and women, have their tastes but to some extent that will be negated if they meet a person that they want to be with and vice versa, they might meet someone that fulfills a lot of their ideals but they don't like the person.
Dating sites will have a couple of pictures and some text which makes it very impersonal so a woman can easily reject a man on a dating site based on that information and that's the end of it, had they met in real life it might have gone differently.
Same with a man, he might have swiped [whatever direction is "I can do that"] but if he had met that woman in real life he might have noped out.
Two technically minded people jumped on the topic. Yes, it will immediately become very sterile and academic.
