@applejack @xyfdi yeah baldur's gate is 100% the outlier there.

also hot take, but i don't think some of these games are even as good as the ones that came before them. tears of the kingdom had a lot of shit in it and some cool gameplay mechanics but botw was better imo and that seems to be the general consensus among zelda nerds. doom eternal has less shooting and more platforming that i would have liked, 2016 had a way better balance. i'm sure a lot of people would argue that ff16 isn't as good as a lot of the previous entries because it's not really a JRPG anymore (although i think ff16 is still the best final fantasy in a very long time and i personally like the combat style).

it's hard to say that, for a lot of these games, people will be looking back on them super fondly like we do with the games of old. i don't think people playing ff16 for the first time are going to have nearly as magical of an experience as ff7, or potentially even 6/8/9/10. tears of the kingdom has already soured but i still look back on botw more fondly, and then wind waker and ocarina of time are stacks upon stacks more memorable comparatively.

i haven't played a lot of these, at least enough to really know how they stack up, but i'd wager to guess that elden ring and mario wonder would probably be the two that really stick with people. some games these days might be super polished, full of content, etc. but they really lack that MAGIC and i don't think it's just because of us getting older, because there are still some new games that come out that give me that feeling of "man, this game has SOUL."

also because i have to plug this every single time good games are brought up, RATCHET AND CLANK RIFT APART!!! so many people sleep on that game, it's so good. one of the few games i've played that actually gave me that same feeling of playing games as a kid and it'll stick with me just like those games did back then. also, kirby and the forgotten land was an amazing game, definitely gave me that feeling too.

@tomie @xyfdi i struggle to say that soulslikes are never good because i think it completely clashes with the kind of game i enjoy and it's hard for me to adequately judge it. at least elden ring and sekiro, which seem to be a bit of a departure and make me feel like there is something more of merit there than just "this game is ballbutts hard and you suck if you think it's bad."

also i didn't play it a whole lot, but i did enjoy the time i played lies of p. i think it's probably among the best of the "soulslikes" and that is partly because it doesn't follow them beat-for-beat. so you may have a point there. they're almost intentionally bad, so that people can wear their completed save file as an achievement of some sort lol.

i was gonna say, i think the xenoblade chronicles games got worse as time went on. i've never played them but i have heard that the original is still the best. and that anything else in the series is hard to get into.

also who tf made this meme and didn't put any indie or AA games on here lol.

@beardalaxy @tomie @xyfdi

>they're almost intentionally bad, so that people can wear their completed save file as an achievement of some sort lol.

It's the exact opposite, they go very far towards helping you win, you just have to pay attention

>explore under some crates
>find the undead merchant
>buy a cheap key
>unlock a door that gets you gold pine resin
>boss 5 steps away is very weak to lightning
>earned a satisfying win

vs

>dont explore, dont upgrade your equipment, dont change your equipment for different scenarios, dont use the full moveset per weapon, dont strategise with the enemies like luring them for 1v1s, dont use consumables, dont interact with npcs or invaders to get summons, dont go to a different area if it is too hard, etc, etc
>why is this so hard, this is not fun!

https://youtu.be/V4udRpxoU8Q

vs

https://youtu.be/HHzFuwLvF_4

@applejack @beardalaxy @xyfdi if I ever want to do obscure undefined tasks thru obtaining obscure undefined shit I'll just go and try to apply for tax deduction or some other highly bureaucratic stuff
and if someone reuploaded a random guy playing a game just in order to lowkey bully him, this says nothing good neither about the game nor the fandom

@tomie @beardalaxy @xyfdi You're not really listening, and you don't seem to know who DSP is

Like I said, the game helps you out in what you need to do, how to do it, and gives you the tools for it. It just does not hold your hand. It's the peak of this sort of design

DPS has tutorial messages directly tell him what to do, button prompts on the screen, item descriptions, he ignores them, he does not interact with the NPCs or pay attention to his surroundings, so he has no idea how anything works, where to go, or what to do, so he has a miserable time, and HE BLAMES THE GAME FOR IT, he is the iconic example of why people think the game is hard, and he is by far more toxic than the people making supercuts (as well as a kinda crap person overall)

He is iconic as the lowest common denominator that needs to be accounted for, which Dark Souls is a bit too high of a bar for:
https://youtu.be/eSB29qx6sWw?t=2277

@applejack @tomie @xyfdi I haven't played enough to know of the intricacies of all the design. I more refer to how clunky/janky it is. I'm not a fan of that. Elden Ring and Sekiro seem to be smoother from what I've seen, but I haven't played them so I'm not sure. I'm also just really not a fan of the gameplay loop of immediately dying to a boss and having to replay through everything again just to get back and learn a little bit more, I think it artificially pads game time/difficulty and the same can be said about the dudes who jump out at you from around corners. I'm cool with difficult games but Souls games just kind of seem needlessly difficult to me and not fun to play because of it. That's why Lies of P was cool, it had a checkpoint right before the first boss so if I did I could retry immediately, but would still be losing currency and items each time so it still forced me to get better without feeling like the game was wasting my time.

I get it though, that the grind is part of the appeal. Just not appealing to me, and I think there are ways it can be done better. Making combat more snappy with more clearly defined hitboxes, turning up the difficulty of combat a little bit, and being more gracious with checkpoints would put the games more up my alley.

@beardalaxy @tomie @xyfdi >I have not played enough to understand it
>Having to learn the game is padding
>Not fun because of it

I guess the issue is that you want the game to be explained to you and the difficulty to come from the gameplay, whereas in DS learning the game is the main source of the difficulty. In either case, you play the game to get good, I see no reason why one would be worse other than mindset

>it had a checkpoint right before the first boss
So does the Asylum Demon in DS1, Last Giant in DS2 is a ladder and an elevator away (via shortcut, level designs, especially in DS1 is great), and Iudex Gundyr in DS3 is a short stroll away

A bonfire is rarely very far away, and you are rewarded for exploring via shortcuts, hidden bonfires, changing the environment, or just getting better at fighting the enemies between you and the boss and learning the area

You have the wrong perception of the games if you think you're supposed to die 50 times to the same boss in a row to memorise tiny twitches in their attacks

If you're taking more than a couple attempts, it's almost always a sign that you should adapt or come back later

@applejack @tomie @xyfdi I guess I just don't vibe with it. The more cracked out a game is the more I like it usually xD why I can't really play stealth games either and strategy games usually aren't too fun for me. But that's why I was saying originally that I don't think the games are necessarily bad, they're just very far from something I'd want to play for an entire game.

@applejack @beardalaxy @tomie @xyfdi holy shit is that applejack?

@f_o_u_r_t_y @beardalaxy @tomie @xyfdi